Query Corner and Stourport Branch: Difference between pages
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Welcome to Query Corner! |
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|+Bewdley to Hartlebury ("Stourport Branch") |
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[[File:BSicon_STR.svg|25px]] To [[Shrewsbury]] via [[Bridgnorth]] |
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[[File:BSicon_BHF.svg|25px]] [[Bewdley]] |
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[[File:BSicon_ABZlf.svg|25px]] [[Bewdley South signal box|Bewdley Jct South]] (To [[Kidderminster]]) |
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<br/> |
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[[File:BSicon_TUNNEL1.svg|25px]] [[Mount Pleasant Tunnel]] |
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[[File:BSicon_HST.svg|25px]] [[Burlish Halt]] |
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<br/> |
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[[File:BSicon DST.svg|25px]] [[List_of_signal_boxes#List_of_historical_Signal_Boxes_and_Ground_Frames|Brindley Street Siding]] |
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[[File:BSicon_ABZlg.svg|25px]] [[List_of_signal_boxes#List_of_historical_Signal_Boxes_and_Ground_Frames|Burlish Branch]] |
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[[File:BSicon_BHF.svg|25px]] [[Stourport]] |
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[[File:BSicon_ABZrf.svg|25px]] To [[Stourport Power Station]] |
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<br/> |
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[[File:BSicon DST.svg|25px]] [[List_of_signal_boxes#List_of_historical_Signal_Boxes_and_Ground_Frames|Leapgate Siding]] |
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<br/> |
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[[File:BSicon_ABZrg.svg|25px]] [[Hartlebury Junction | Hartlebury Jct]] (To [[Kidderminster]]) |
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<br/> |
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[[File:BSicon_BHF.svg|25px]] [[Hartlebury]] |
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[[File:BSicon_STR.svg|25px]] To Worcester |
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[[File:Stourport Branch 20151122.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The line of the Stouport Branch (right) and entry to the Triangle (left)]] |
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This was the route of the original Severn Valley line dating from 1862, connecting [[Bewdley]] and stations to the north with the main line at [[Hartlebury]] to the south. The [[Kidderminster]] to Bewdley link used by the present day SVR opened in 1878. The area between the two lines is commonly referred to as the [[Stourport Triangle]] or Bewdley Triangle. |
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In the picture, the original path of the Severn Valley Railway is the line curving away to the right. A set of points allows entry to the sidings in the triangle, added by the SVR during preservation. |
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This is a location to ask (and answer!) about any gaps in the information available on the SVR. We are interested in both personal recollections and of potential sources of information, such as old editions of the SVR News, articles published in newspapers or magazines, or photographs you may have. |
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There was an intermediate halt on the branch between Bewdley and [[Stourport]], just on the Stourport side of [[Mount Pleasant Tunnel]] at [[Burlish Halt|Burlish]]. |
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Please add to this page as questions come to mind. To '''add to a new question''', put a short summary as a new section title (e.g. '''<nowiki>== Kidderminster Questions ==</nowiki>'''), and add some context below. |
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The trackbed of the Stourport line as far as Burlish Park was acquired by the SVR when the southern extension was purchased. The trackbed running past houses was immediately sold off as garden extensions, thus offsetting part of the purchase price (the SVR had in effect acted as agents for the local residents' association).) The purchase included the modern footbridge and the Halt at Burlish, the platform of which was made from precast concrete sections. Both footbridge and platform were dismantled and stored at [[Arley]] for many years before being sold.<ref>[https://forum.svr-online.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1067 Peter Pearson and Chris Walton, SVR Forum thread, 21-22 February 2009]</ref> |
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When replying to questions, you should '''add a signature''' to identify yourself, and to break up different replies - his can be done automatically by adding '''<nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end of your reply, which will generate a signature for you when you save the page, or alternatively by clicking the add signature button on the editor (second button from the right). |
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Today the SVR owns the track bed of the Stourport Branch from Bewdley through Mount Pleasant Tunnel to a point 302 yards beyond its southern portal, a short way north of Burlish Halt. The [[Severn Valley Railway Timeline 1970-1979#1973 | 1973 Light Railway Order]] allowed the SVR to operate over this section, although it has never been used for public services. The first ¾ mile was re-laid in 1975 for filming of [[The Seven-Per-Cent Solution]] to take place. Part of this short length of track is now used as a siding. |
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It is possible to '''indent your reply''' by placing a colon at the start of each line, e.g. '''<nowiki>: Indented Text</nowiki>'''. Additional colons will indent your text further. |
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Travelling from Bewdley, there are two underbridges on the branch before Mount Pleasant Tunnel is reached. Both are included in the [[Wyre Forest District Council Local Heritage List]]. The first (item SVR023*) is an Occupation Underbridge connecting fields on each side of the line. The second (item SVR022*) is a large stone and brick arched bridge with a 30 ft span and 28 ft high, lying on the publicly accessible track from the Bewdley Bypass to the farm near Safari Park curve and also to the [[Devil's Spittleful (Rifle Range) Bridge]] leading to the [[Rifle Range Halt | Devil's Spittleful & Rifle Range heathland]]. |
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There is now an ongoing project to post questions daily(ish) over on the [[Daily Question]] page, the questions also being posted to the Unofficial SVR Facebook Group. |
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__TOC__ |
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== Wanted Pages == |
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We have a small number of [[Wanted pages | links to pages that don't exist yet]]<br> |
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If you have any knowledge of the subject, please go ahead and create the page. |
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== Ground Frames at Alveley, Foley Park, and Kidderminster == |
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*It is known that Alveley Sidings had two ground frames, [[Alveley North ground frame|North]] and [[Alveley South ground frame|South]], and that the South survived into preservation for some years. However, details are incredibly sketchy! I have seen photos of special trains at Alveley in early days, perhaps one of these includes them? |
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* Foley Park Sidings almost certainly had at least one, possibly two, ground frames for access. I have no information on these. I have also come across a photo showing two temporary GFs on the SVR/BR boundary - see [[Ground Frames at Foley Park]] - but nothing else is known. |
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* I've seen reference to a ground frame at Kidderminster Town station in early days, controlling the run round, before the box was built. Was this one GF or two, given the distance? Again, any information appreciated! |
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--[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 22:48, 9 January 2015 (UTC) |
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: I asked some of these questions to the FB group, and predictably it raised more questions than answers! See [https://www.facebook.com/groups/2360466988/permalink/10152660284621989/ Link]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 22:11, 10 January 2015 (UTC) |
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==Which carriages are in regular use?== |
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There's a good article in the latest SVR News about the make up of the carriage rakes in use for the Diesel Gala.<br> |
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Can that be taken as the current standard make up? It only show four carriages on the Severn Valley Limited and makes no mention of the Severn Valley Venturer.<br> |
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If the carriage shed is 1/5 mile long, that's room for 15 carriages at 70' on each of the four roads. If there are six sets, BR Maroon, BR Carmine & Cream, LMS, LNER, plus SVV & SVL I take it that leaves plenty of room for the TPOs, spares etc.?<br> |
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--[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 08:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC) |
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Because its on a slight curve each of the four roads of the carriage shed varies slight in length. It capacity is generally considered to be 56 bogies coaches.<br>[[User:Boldford|Boldford]] ([[User talk:Boldford|talk]]) 17:45, 1 February 2015 (UTC) |
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:I'll take a look at the news next time I'm home, but the Limited would usually be S(5). The Venturer would be two coaches attached to the South (KR) end of Bridgnorth's service train for the day. |
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I guess I may as well mention the Observation Saloons, which will run as required for Cream Tea services (one obbo at the KR end of the train) or as private charters attached to one end or the other of a service train (I think the KR end is more usual, but I've seen it the other way round, and even with an obbo both ends). --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 09:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC) |
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I've had a go at adding the various sets to the carriages page.<br> |
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I'll try to compile all the information I want by observation over the next few weekends, but in the meantime, does anyone know:<br> |
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Is the list in SVR News, Winter 2014, still current?<br> |
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Which LMS carriage is in Set S?<br> |
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Which carriages make up the SVV?<br> |
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--[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 12:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC) |
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:The Winter 2014 list is a little out of date. I've added a note under the set lists for M,N and C of the configurations that were in use last Saturday (7th March). I guess things get added and taken off as required - the Crimson and Cream set had 6 in use for a footplate experience but would presumably grow to 7 or 8 if used in service. Interesting that a couple of the changes are in the middle of sets though.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 19:05, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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I noticed your lists were a bit different to the ones I copied. Presumably the buffet was left out as it's not needed on a Footplate Experience. Isn't there some complication with mixing and matching couplings and corridor connections, which might explain why carriages are not always added or removed from one end or the other?<br> |
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80609 is not on the VCT list. Is that the correct number, have they missed it?<br> |
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If the sets are going to change frequently, then perhaps the section needs altering. Maybe we could either give a list of known previous compositions of each set, which could get quite long with all the possible combinations, or just word it something like "Set C is made up of up to 9 of the following carriages..."<br> |
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--[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 23:47, 14 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:80609 should be 80969 (typos, my specialism!). AIUI there are a number of other considerations. The Guard/brake van has to be near the middle to be on platform at shorter stations while the buffet tends to be near the middle, presumably for expediency. Obbos would naturally tend to go on the end. The lists you copied were from the Autumn Steam Gala where presumably the requirement is maximum possible passenger numbers hence 8 regular carriages in each set. However sets may be shorter at other times, for example the AN1 set in March may only need 6 + an obbo for cream teas or whatever. It will be interesting to see what is in use for the Spring Gala, and whether it changes again afterwards. |
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::For what it's worth the sets in use yesterday were: N(7) on AN1, C(7)+80969 on AS1 and DMU(4) on AS2. --[[User:WillSalt|WillSalt]] ([[User talk:WillSalt|talk]]) 16:31, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::Also FWIW M, C and S were in use today, so I've added them to the current configurations. Once we see how often they change, we can decide on the best way of keeping track, but probably one of Graham's suggestions.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 16:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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== Foundation/building behind Bewdley North Signal Box == |
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A [https://www.facebook.com/groups/2360466988/permalink/10152856743536989/ Facebook discussion] has brought up [https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/11174397_10204097765420037_5448357602381859999_o.jpg this image of a brick construction], situated behind Bewdley North signal box, with the question being what it actually was. Initial suggestions were that it might be an air raid shelter, but the lack of an entrance and strange siting seem to rule that out, and it has been mentioned that the brickwork seems similar to the the signal box itself. The leading suggestion now seems to be that it could have been a lamp hut, but with no real evidence other than it being of about the right size and in a sensible location. |
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Some alternative views can be found in [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beerdave1745/5011483860/in/set-72157625002985022 photo 1] and [http://www.train-photos.net/picture/show/17166/Bewdley-North-signal-box photo 2]. |
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Does anyone have information as to the origin/history of the item? --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 09:22, 20 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:I've added the combined thoughts of John Marshall, Michael V.E. Dunn and Keith Beddoes as they appeared in SVR news, see [[Bewdley North signal box#Lamp Room and plinth]]. Draw your own conclusions, for what it's worth I go with the John Marshall view that the plinth was built for the lamp room, typical GWR "when in doubt over-engineer it so it won't fall down".--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 23:10, 27 December 2015 (UTC) |
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==Width of Bridge 16 at Arley== |
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The [[Accommodation bridge south of Arley]] appears to be the only bridge not originally built to [[double track]] width.<br> |
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Does anyone know why? --[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 08:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC) |
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:Appeared as the daily question on [[Daily_Question#17th|17th November]], although no definite answer was given. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 11:57, 19 November 2015 (UTC) |
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==Potentially dated statements== |
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There are a number of articles containing potentially dated statements.<br> |
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Can you help with any of these? |
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*[[Peckett_1738]] Is it still at Titley Junction Station in Herefordshire? |
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*[[LNWR 76738 (fictitious) 4-Wheel Tranship Van]] Is it still in Kidderminster Carriage Shed? |
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==Bridgnorth Bus Garage== |
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One of the buildings in the old coal yard between Kidderminster station and the Footbridge is the restored ex-Bridgnorth bus garage, of which details and a picture can be found on the Friends of Kidderminster Station website [http://www.kfriends.org.uk/projects/busgarage.htm here]. Is this the same building that can be seen just behind the pannier tank in this Sellick photograph? It would seem a logical place for it. |
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<gallery> |
<gallery> |
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File:SVR023star 20160514.jpg | SVR023* |
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File:Bridgnorth-Pannier-RR-1963-01-26.jpg |
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File:SVR022star.JPG | SVR022* |
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</gallery> |
</gallery> |
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--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 22:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:Self answered question. Yes it was.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 17:40, 22 June 2016 (UTC) |
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In December 2010 an attempt to build a [[Wagon Review Group|two-road shed]] for the storage of up to 50 wagons on the course of the trackbed of the branch failed when the HLF turned down an application for funding.<ref>[https://forum.svr-online.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1133&highlight=hlf Fathers, P., SVR Forum 10 December 2010] (Retrieved 4 January 2018</ref> |
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==Bridge 27== |
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Not been in query corner for a while, but here's two for the price of one. Looking at the [[Occupation bridge near Eardington ground frame]] the other day, I noticed a couple of oddities. Firstly the bridge is No 27 in the [[List of infrastructure]], but has an obvious number 32 in the style used for bridge numbering (left of the photo). Were the bridges renumbered at some point? Secondly, there is a sign saying (I think) "Huxleyheath Junction". I know the location of the [[Eardington ground frame | Ground Frame]] used to be called Osborne Junction, but is there any reason for the name there now? |
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In 2015, Rail Safety Solutions (RSS) entered an agreement with the SVR to lease the branch as far as Mount Pleasant tunnel, for the purposes of training Network Rail apprentices in track laying and maintenance. In exchange, the SVR would gain ongoing training for its own staff, as well as use of the relaid track for occasional train services.<ref>SVR News 192, "General Manager's Notes", Nick Ralls</ref> A small section of recently relaid track can be seen on the site, along with a hoarding bearing the logos of RSS, Auctus Training Solutions and the SVR. |
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<gallery> |
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File:RSS_Poster_20170218.jpg | Poster at the Stourport Triangle in 2017 |
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File:Bridge_27_20160618.jpg |
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File:Triangle_20170409.jpg | Examples of track work |
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</gallery> |
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--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 17:40, 22 June 2016 (UTC) |
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: I think that sign is very recent - I don't remember seeing it when I walked past a month ago! Sadly I can't say I definitively know the answer... --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 22:28, 22 June 2016 (UTC) |
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::Just a guess, but there's about five more bridges between Hartlebury and Bewdley than there are between Kidderminster and Bewdley. Could that be the original SVB number? If so, it's very durable paint. --[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 05:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Was yellow spray paint used in the 1960s or earlier? Maybe... --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 09:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC) |
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::::I think Graham is on the right track (sorry!). Engine Shed Underpass (now Bridge 36) has a similar looking number 40 visible from platform 1. If BR bridge 32 at Eardington became SVR bridge 27 (-5), and BR bridge 40 at Bridgnorth became SVR bridge 36 (-4), then there is one more numbered bridge between Eardington and Bridgnorth in preservation than there was under BR. The Bypass bridge post-dates BR.... --[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 20:18, 16 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== Motorised Points == |
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When point(s) at crossing loops were motorised in the 1930s, were any signals motorised at the same time? [[User:SevenHills|SevenHills]] ([[User talk:SevenHills|talk]]) 07:19, 3 October 2016 (UTC) |
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* [[Coalport]] G.F. |
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* [[Cressage]] |
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* [[Berrington]] [[User:SevenHills|SevenHills]] ([[User talk:SevenHills|talk]]) 07:22, 3 October 2016 (UTC) |
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: I dare say I've never heard of any motor-operated signals on the line, and wouldn't really have expected them, given that the distances to signals were generally less than they are now (not many 1000-yard signals back then!). Still, never say never... --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 08:38, 3 October 2016 (UTC) |
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==Wagons December 2017== |
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Two Parr wagons joined the SVR. From photos these are 967577 and 96752n [incomplete]. Can someone confirm identities? |
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There are three dogfish, two have moved to the Swanage Railway. Which, please? Thanks |
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Patrick 9/1/18 (can't find the date stamp) |
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: All wagons now identified. --[[User:Graham Phillips 110|Graham Phillips 110]] ([[User talk:Graham Phillips 110|talk]]) 19:24, 18 August 2018 (UTC) |
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== |
==See also== |
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[[Maps#Schematic_maps_of_the_pre-closure_SVR | Pre-1963 map]] |
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Eric Tyler on [https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/svr-general-discussion.333307/page-29#post-2132557|Nat Pres] is seeking information on a road vehicle Rapier H7 Crane, he thinks that the SVR had one in 2010. Is the Crane is still at the SVR, and any contact for information would be appreciated.Thanks |
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Patrick 2/5/18 (can't find the date stamp) |
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== |
==References== |
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<references /> |
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Not a query as such, more a list of photos to take and information to research etc.. |
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* Fill in gaps in the table for the location of various [[Goods Wagons]] |
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::We probably need a standard 'location' description for wagons (and carriages) that are in use and move up and down the line on a regular basis. "In service"? |
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* Photograph lever leads and create table for signal boxes at [[Bewdley North signal box]], [[Arley signal box]] and [[Highley signal box]]. |
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* Create a page for the [[Permanent Way Department]], [[Signals & Telegraph Department]] and various other departments. |
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* Find and photograph all the [[Goods_Wagons#Containers_and_Grounded_Wagon_Bodies | Conflat containers]] |
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* Additional items on [[Other rolling stock formerly resident on the SVR]] (especially Wickham trollies, tampers etc) and [[Other rolling stock visiting the SVR]] |
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* Missing information on locomotive mileages for various years from 2004 onwards (n.b., the cumulative table to 2004 in SVR News 152 contained several apparent errors) |
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* Add Infobox for Wagon pages where necessary - also add TOPS code to Infobox and populate |
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* Add additional 'On this day in history' entries (ongoing) |
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* ''Create pages for track maintenance plant at Highley and Road Railers'': Done for those on which I have any information.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 16:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC) |
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* Update [[Carriages#The_carriage_sets]] to show current formations. |
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* Identify item K on [[Bewdley South signal box | Bewdley South block shelf]] |
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*Photographs needed; |
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::[[Bridgnorth Boiler Shop ground frame]] |
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::Various culverts etc. on [[Wyre Forest District Council Local Heritage List]] |
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::[[BR 707261 Crane Runner]] |
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::''Track maintenance plant at Highley'': Done.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 16:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC) |
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::''Road Railers'':Done for those of which I had photos.--[[User:Robin|Robin]] ([[User talk:Robin|talk]]) 16:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC) |
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::[[BR Class 09 09107]] |
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* Add slogans and campaigns to the [[Marketing Department]] page |
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* Add more photography locations |
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Revision as of 21:06, 21 October 2019
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This was the route of the original Severn Valley line dating from 1862, connecting Bewdley and stations to the north with the main line at Hartlebury to the south. The Kidderminster to Bewdley link used by the present day SVR opened in 1878. The area between the two lines is commonly referred to as the Stourport Triangle or Bewdley Triangle.
In the picture, the original path of the Severn Valley Railway is the line curving away to the right. A set of points allows entry to the sidings in the triangle, added by the SVR during preservation.
There was an intermediate halt on the branch between Bewdley and Stourport, just on the Stourport side of Mount Pleasant Tunnel at Burlish.
The trackbed of the Stourport line as far as Burlish Park was acquired by the SVR when the southern extension was purchased. The trackbed running past houses was immediately sold off as garden extensions, thus offsetting part of the purchase price (the SVR had in effect acted as agents for the local residents' association).) The purchase included the modern footbridge and the Halt at Burlish, the platform of which was made from precast concrete sections. Both footbridge and platform were dismantled and stored at Arley for many years before being sold.[1]
Today the SVR owns the track bed of the Stourport Branch from Bewdley through Mount Pleasant Tunnel to a point 302 yards beyond its southern portal, a short way north of Burlish Halt. The 1973 Light Railway Order allowed the SVR to operate over this section, although it has never been used for public services. The first ¾ mile was re-laid in 1975 for filming of The Seven-Per-Cent Solution to take place. Part of this short length of track is now used as a siding.
Travelling from Bewdley, there are two underbridges on the branch before Mount Pleasant Tunnel is reached. Both are included in the Wyre Forest District Council Local Heritage List. The first (item SVR023*) is an Occupation Underbridge connecting fields on each side of the line. The second (item SVR022*) is a large stone and brick arched bridge with a 30 ft span and 28 ft high, lying on the publicly accessible track from the Bewdley Bypass to the farm near Safari Park curve and also to the Devil's Spittleful (Rifle Range) Bridge leading to the Devil's Spittleful & Rifle Range heathland.
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SVR023* -
SVR022*
In December 2010 an attempt to build a two-road shed for the storage of up to 50 wagons on the course of the trackbed of the branch failed when the HLF turned down an application for funding.[2]
In 2015, Rail Safety Solutions (RSS) entered an agreement with the SVR to lease the branch as far as Mount Pleasant tunnel, for the purposes of training Network Rail apprentices in track laying and maintenance. In exchange, the SVR would gain ongoing training for its own staff, as well as use of the relaid track for occasional train services.[3] A small section of recently relaid track can be seen on the site, along with a hoarding bearing the logos of RSS, Auctus Training Solutions and the SVR.
-
Poster at the Stourport Triangle in 2017 -
Examples of track work
See also[edit | edit source]
References[edit | edit source]
- ↑ Peter Pearson and Chris Walton, SVR Forum thread, 21-22 February 2009
- ↑ Fathers, P., SVR Forum 10 December 2010 (Retrieved 4 January 2018
- ↑ SVR News 192, "General Manager's Notes", Nick Ralls