Talk:GWR Power and Weight Classification
I’m a complete ignoramus on the subject and so am posting it here for others to take forward, if relevant. I saw on Nat Pres a thread which touches on the origins of route availability after nationalisation, which states: “..in 1940, the Civil Engineer's Department of the LNER Southern Area (ex-GN/GC/GE lines) devised a system of Route Availability (RA) classes. This was in a situation where WW2 was requiring engines to be assessed for use on lines outside their traditional areas [..] The initiative was successful and was extended in 1947 to the whole of the LNER, with the RA number henceforth being shown on locos [..] BR decided in due course to adopt the LNER system, although I'm not sure that it became network-wide before the 1970s.” It's not referenced, but there's a link.--Patrick Hearn (talk) 22:09, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
- I'm no expert on the subject either. I notice that the Great Western Railway Power and Weight Classification article on Wikipedia states that "In 1949, BR decided to adopt the London, Midland and Scottish Railway (LMS) system of power classification for all locomotives." There's no citation, so I'm leaving our own article referring to it being based on the LNER system as it stands until something more definite turns up to say it's wrong. --Robin (talk) 14:53, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
The Note on this page from Marshall says: "Marshall refers to the line as 'dotted blue' without stating that it was a 'yellow' route pre-War, however the absence of evidence of blue rated locomotives prior to that time suggests this was the case." I note that the GW(SVR)A appeal leaflet for 9303 includes the unattributed: "Moguls operated on the Severn Valley line from the 1930s (when Kidderminster to Bewdley, Stourport and Tenbury became a ‘blue’ route)..." - see http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/pdfs/9303AppealLeaflet.pdf --Patrick Hearn (talk) 23:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I don't have (or should I say Michael Clemens didn't have) a full GWR-era working timetable with route classifications to give positive confirmation. The suggestion that the Severn Valley Branch was yellow until the War came from Smith (1968). I've found some quotes in Beddoes & Smith (1995) which appear to confirm this:
- Page 103 states that circa 1930 "The introduction of the new 87XX 0-6-0PT engines to Kidderminster shed continued the process of updating motive power which had begun in 1927. The Tenbury & Bewdley had already been used by 'blue route' engines for some time, but now as a result of the GWR's bridge rebuilding and restrengthening programme, the line could take the heaviest in the group. The neighbouring Severn Valley line was not apparently considered important enough to warrant any major renovations and remained for the time being a 'yellow route'. Consequently, 'blue route' engines were only seen at Bewdley on Tenbury trains or on Kidderminster triangle workings (Kidderminster-Bewdley-Stourport-Hartlebury-Kidderminster)." (there is then no other mention of changes on the Severn Valley Branch in the pre-War era chapter).
- Page 134 states that around 1941 "Wartime necessity was bringing many more unusual locos to Bewdley, albeit mostly destined for Bridgnorth on the Severn Valley line where an RAF training camp had been established. The upgrading of the Severn Valley line to 'blue' enabled heavy troop train movements to be routed around the Kidderminster triangle. 'Manor' class 4-6-0s appeared, as did LMS 'Crab' 2-6-0s and LMS class 5 4-6-0s on specials originating from Padgate (Near Warrington) and Cardington (Bedfordshire). Probably the most unexpected type to appear subsequent to the D-Day landing in 1944, was LNER Holden 812 4-6-0s bringing GI casualties to Stourport for an American Hospital at Burlish. A 'Southern Railway locomotive' was also reported to have appeared at Woofferton, presumably one of those on wartime loan to the GWR. The 4-4-0 'Dukes' were frequently seen passing through Bewdley during the war on Shrewsbury Birmingham and Shrewsbury-Kidderminster workings, including No 3276 and No 3284 Isle of Jersey, 'Dukedogs' Nos 3207 and 3224 were also being used on these trains."
- So I suspect that Moguls would only have been seen on the southern end of the branch pre-War (which wouldn't entirely contradict the GW(SVR)A leaflet), although of course things sometimes happened in practice which shouldn't have happened in theory, so I wouldn't be surprised to find a photo of one somewhere! --Robin (talk) 14:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)