Talk:LMR 600 Gordon

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Ownership history

In the article, it is stated firstly that "Gordon was still the property of the British Army when the Longmoor Military Railway closed and was subsequently sold [...] Gordon arrived on the SVRSevern Valley Railway in September 1971 on loan from The Transport Trust", which conflicts with the later statement that "it remained Army property until July 2008".

To the best of my knowledge, the latter is true, but what the exact ownership situation was back in the 70s was, I don't know - it sounds as if the Army had very little involvement throughout its preservation history. --Danny252 (talk) 00:22, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure on the exact details of ownership either but looking at various sources, I think the Transport Trust were facilitators and possibly temporary custodians but never owners. The entry for Gordon in the Stock Book uses the phrase "…the Army asked the Transport Trust if they could find a suitable home for the locomotive"; my guess being because the latter were more likely to have a good knowledge of the heritage railways at the time. SVRSevern Valley Railway News 20 reported that Gordon and the 3 coaches "…all now in the care of the "Transport Trust", are being loaned to the SVRSevern Valley Railway" (ie "care of" rather than "ownership of"), while SVRSevern Valley Railway News 21 described the SVRSevern Valley Railway's custody as "…through the courtesy of the Army and the Transport Trust".
Once on the SVRSevern Valley Railway, ownership was variously described in Stock Books as “Army” up to the 7th edition, “Army Transport Museum” in the 8th Edition and Royal Army Service Corps Association in the most recent 9th edition. SVRSevern Valley Railway News 162 reported that in July 2008 Gordon "…was handed over by the Army Museum to SVRSevern Valley Railway Ownership". So I think ownership was always with the Army, although quite where and when it lay between the LMR, the Army Museum, the Army Transport Museum and the RASC Association is less that obvious from the sources I have.
As an aside, I can't remember where I found the quote that Gordon was the last steam loco owned by the Army. Moral, add references when creating articles!--Robin (talk) 12:46, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the various bits of ownership, I wouldn't be surprised if it was owned by all of those at different times, as various bits of the army got reorganised/rebranded. It seems the armed forces are good at that - Cosford seems to have had umpteen prefixes depending on which department owned it that year, and MOD (Telford/Donnington) has quite a split personality. --Danny252 (talk) 11:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Roy Castle "Hope" trains

Robin, help please. 600 is shown as hauling these in 1994 but March 25 shows 1995. Can you check the appropriate SVRSevern Valley Railway News and make the correction? Thanks--Patrick Hearn (talk) 07:00, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

I see why there is a discrepancy. My original reference in this article, Stock Book 9 from 1998, states 25 March 1994. SVRSevern Valley Railway News 114, Spring 1995, p. 6. has a picture captioned "Army 2-10-0 600 Gordon departs from Kidderminster for Highley with the first of three Roy Castle 'Cause for Hope' special trains on Saturday 25 March 1994." Checking up, 25 March 1994 was actually a Friday; 25 March 1995 was a Saturday. The main season in 1995 only started in April; before then a Sunday only service ran to Highley, so a day of Saturday specials to Highley in March 1995 would have fitted in with that. Given the picture was published in the Spring 1995 SVRSevern Valley Railway News, it therefore looks likely that the running date was that year with the caption being a mistake which was perpetuated in the stock book.--Robin (talk) 15:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, as ever--Patrick Hearn (talk) 00:29, 13 March 2020 (UTC)